{"id":3119,"date":"2026-05-14T09:45:52","date_gmt":"2026-05-14T16:45:52","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.swank.com\/k12\/?p=3119"},"modified":"2026-06-02T14:42:35","modified_gmt":"2026-06-02T21:42:35","slug":"ruler-and-reel-based-learning","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.swank.com\/k12\/blog\/ruler-and-reel-based-learning\/","title":{"rendered":"RULER and Reel Learning: On-Demand Fireside Chat"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
We were honored to welcome Dr. Marc Brackett, Ph.D.,<\/strong> founding director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence<\/strong> and creator of the RULER<\/strong> method, to our St. Louis headquarters for an engaging conversation on Social Emotional Learning (SEL)<\/strong>.<\/h5>\n\n\n\n
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Joined by Swank President Chris Swank<\/strong> and special guests from K-12 schools<\/strong>, Dr. Brackett explored the role of emotional intelligence in education and the unique ways movies and storytelling can help build empathy, resilience, and whole-student development. Now you can watch the full conversation.<\/strong> You\u2019ll hear:<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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  • What emotional intelligence is and how it can be applied in educational environments<\/li>\n\n\n\n
  • Why SEL matters more than ever in schools today<\/li>\n\n\n\n
  • How film can bring emotional learning to life in classrooms<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n

    This is a practical and inspiring discussion for any educator or decision-maker interested in using film to engage students and support emotional intelligence across your school or district.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\t

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    \n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tAll right. Well, good afternoon and welcome to our fireside chat event with Mark Brackett. Doctor. Mark Brackett. But I get the sense you prefer that. And Chris Swank. Yes, many of us, we know each other, but there are some guests here today. So my name is Chris Swank and I’m one of the co presidents of Swank Motion Pictures and many of our guests today are in the world of K-twelve and we’ve been in that world also for about twenty five years and we started in K-twelve market primarily with the events part of the business and the licensing of the events or the sort of unplanned activities that happen on property and over time it evolved into the uses for content for curriculum and helping teachers and some of those friction points with getting access to digital content in the classrooms or on learning management systems and then from there it started to expand into areas of social and emotional learning, SEL, and that really took off with the pandemic and the time after that and we’re excited to have Mark here today, as a subject matter expert of sorts for social emotional learning in that whole world and all these places that it can take you, he spent a significant amount of his time, his life focused on this area. So, excited about this event today. So, Mark is a professor and one of the founding directors for the Yale Center of Emotional Intelligence and he’s been spending his time over the last twenty five years researching, and working on, emotions and how they influence our learning, our behaviors, our relationships, our mental health. And along the way, you also developed the ruler tool, which some of us are familiar with. We’re going to hear more about that today. And the ruler ruler method or ruler tool, I’ll let you help us with that, is in over five thousand schools around the world. So this is interesting for us as we both kind of operate in this space and work to serve these customers. So there’s the ruler tool, there’s also books. Mark is a published author with his groundbreaking book Permission to Feel And then more recently, Dealing with Feeling, which everyone today will, leave with a copy of. And that is one I’m about halfway through it, but I’m living it in my house. So with a middle schooler and a high schooler and people we’ve been through middle school and high school. And it I’ve found it really helpful. It’s really it offers practical strategies for thinking about emotions and how we can learn from them and also the regulation of them and how you can get dis regulated and what are some thoughts and tools and ideas around that. So, Mark isn’t just operating in the world of academia, but you you you your work spans the corporate world and and pop culture. You ‘ve spoken at Google and Amazon and Microsoft, but also sit on the board with the Castle Group, if some of you are familiar with that. Some of our customers may be familiar with the Castle Group. And one that was interesting to me, Rare Beauty Mental Health Council with Selena Gomez. Free makeup for everybody. So and to keep it going, now you’re pushing into apps. You have an app, how we feel. So really excited about today. This is designed to be a bit of a conversation. You have the opportunity to speak all around the world. Thanks for joining us here today, My pleasure. Let’s give Mark one more of applause. Thank you. So, Mark, as we talk today, I think a really nice way to start could be to talk a little bit about what’s called SEL, as I mentioned that, social emotional learning. You know, tell us a little bit about where have we been? What’s maybe the recent past perhaps? Or where are we now, and where do you see it going? Sure, let me give you a little bit of the history of it. I think that might help understand a little bit. So, nineteen ninety, we wrote a theory called emotional intelligence. And nobody read it, because nobody reads anything that academics do. Except one person did, who is a journalist, who, his name is Daniel Goleman. He wrote a book in nineteen ninety five called Emotional Intelligence that was based on the scientific theory. And then from there, it became a field. There were a bunch of researchers thinking about, well how do we deal with violence in our schools, how do we deal with engagement in our schools, how do we deal with kids making responsible decisions? And so the field was born around nineteen ninety five. So it’s been, what, thirty years, is that right? Yeah. I’m a psychologist, not a mathematician. So thirty years, and it’s had ebbs and flows. Meaning it started off, I think, as a classroom curricula. Meaning people like myself, thirty years ago, were writing curriculum to teach kids my work is on emotional intelligence. So I wanted the kids to have a good vocabulary to describe their feelings. I wanted the kids to be able to be comfortable talking about their emotions. And I want them to be able to regulate and strategize with them. And what we found was that, I was inspired by the way, because I had an uncle who was my mentor and hero, who was a middle school teacher, who happened to be writing a curriculum in the nineteen seventies and eighties to teach kids emotional intelligence, it wasn’t called that, through language arts and social studies. And he came into my life at a really important time, when I was really not doing well as a kid. And he was practicing these lessons with me. He’s like, tell me a time when you felt elated. I’m like, can’t think of any of those times. He’s like, well how about alienated? I’m like, you want to stay for a long time? And so we had a lot of conversation around these feelings and normalizing these emotions. And then we, I got, you know, so now fast forward, I’m in my twenties, I’m like, what am I gonna do with my life? I went to college and I majored in psychology and criminal justice, and I was gonna be an FBI agent. And then I did some work in hospitals and forensics, I was like, eesh, I can’t imagine, I don’t wanna, I just saw everyone who I had met, or treated, just could not deal with their emotions. It was like everybody I saw, they were just struggling with emotion management. And so it was a moment in my life where I said we’ve got to get into prevention instead of intervention. We spend so much money as a society dealing with people’s big challenges, when if we went upstream and we taught people skills, maybe we’d have less need for intervention. Which is, by the way, proven in the research. People don’t understand that yet. People still want to wait until the full blown meltdown to then, now I’m going to teach you strategies, as opposed to cultivating a skill that can help prevent those meltdowns. Am I going too long on this? Great. I write a book about this. I think you did write a book about this. This is not in the book. This is not all in the book. This is the last book. But I’m just sharing this with you because we really, the field really started off as a curricula. Like we’re going to have curriculum that someone is going to teach in the classroom. Now we failed at that, because my Uncle Marvin was like that Robin Williams character in Dead Poets Society. He just was a magical teacher and it worked. But we wrote a curriculum and I was, I called myself the Willie Loman of social and emotional learning, if you know who that is, from Death of a Salesman. I’d be with my little roller bag, with my posters and my little booklets, and banging on doors like, do you want to talk about your feelings? Do want to talk about your feelings? And a lot of people said no. A lot of people said no. A lot of principals said no. And then we trained teachers, but then we only trained them on the curriculum. And what we realized very quickly was that the adults who were implementing had not had an emotion education. They didn’t really, some of them had their own issues, just to be frank, that they hadn’t dealt with. And so they weren’t really prepared to do the classroom instruction. So we decided, okay, we’ve got to work with teachers. They deserve a high quality education so they can build their vocabulary and learn strategies to manage their own feelings, and be good role models for kids. And then we had more success, but I don’t know if you’ve ever been to school, some principals are good and some are not. And some of them are, you know, like matter of fact about the way they do things, and like we’re going to do testing, and we’re not going to care about feelings, and I saw a lot of that. And so we decided we’ve got to get the principals on board. The last part of the story was I gave a speech in New York City, where the chancellor of New York City Schools was there. Her name was Carmen Farina at the time. And Carmen was responsible for about one point one million children across the five boroughs of New York, sixteen hundred schools. And she was a real New Yorker, she was like, Mark, I want this in all my schools. And I’m thinking to myself, like, I’m ***** Loman. Like, I don’t know how to do that. But it really made me think about systems. And that the only way to do this work well, so that every child benefits, is to create emotionally intelligent school systems. And so now the work at our center only works at a systems level. It will only work with an entire school or an entire district, because we know that you need all those pieces to really help a kid and a teacher develop. You know, I hadn’t really thought about it from the perspective of the entire school. Yeah. And that’s an important detail, I suspect, that you had to have come along, figured out along the It’s all failure. Yeah. You know, it’s a nice segue into I think it would be really interesting to talk a little bit about the tool and methods that you use when you work with schools. And the ruler method is one that is a highlight in in your book Permission to Feel and I I know that you work with a lot of schools to deploy it. There are a number of us who are familiar with the ruler method, but I suspect there’s just as many that perhaps aren’t. Can you tell us a little bit about what is it and what do you notice when a school implements it? What are, like, know, tell us about it and then what is revealed or what takes place? What do we see? Well again, it’s the whole system. So we have, I guess, we start with a summer institute for superintendents and district level administrators, because they have to know what they’re getting themselves into. And they have to make the commitment to do the work. Otherwise it just will never go anywhere. And unfortunately I see it all the time. There’s not a commitment at that district level. The school board needs to be informed about it because right now there’s some controversy over this work in schools, so some school boards are, know, get this out of my school, others are like, where have you been all my life? And then we work with leaders, teachers, students, families. But the the the curricula is a set of mindsets, skills, and tools. The mindsets, the mindset work is actually much newer than the skill work. And one of the reasons why it’s newer was that I learned through my running around the world doing this, people, there just was a lot of resistance. And I would, know, remember going to one school, my job is not to talk to students about feelings. Like, oof, it’s nine o’clock, beginning of the workshop, can’t wait to spend my day here. And I realized that people just didn’t, the value proposition just wasn’t there. People did not see, the light didn’t go off that oh, this is gonna matter for how kids develop, this is gonna matter for how I get along with kids and the way I approach children. And so Permission to Feel, which is my first book, is all about that. And what I, my story for that book is a very simple one, it really was personal and then professional, which was that I grew up with a bit of trauma, I grew up with a lot of bullying, and I had depression, anxiety, and eating disorder at very young age, and nobody really figured it out. Nobody noticed anything in me. Nobody said, hey Mark, how are you feeling? Which I still can’t believe to this day. Like how could no one have noticed that my facial expression was kind of not one of like, hello, I’m glad to be here. Except my uncle did notice that. And he was very keen on, you know, was very attuned. And so I argued that he gave me permission to feel. Now since writing that book, I have done about seventy studies on that concept alone. And so I’ve been very curious as a psychologist, how many people have an Uncle Marvin, or an Aunt Maria, a mom, or a dad, or a coach, anyone in their life who creates the conditions for them to be their true self. It’s just that, Like where you can just let someone know, I’m not feeling well, I’m struggling, or I’m frustrated, or I’m overwhelmed, or I’m scared, or whatever it is. Pleasant emotions too. And what my research shows across about twenty thousand people at this point, across the world, is that only a third of people say yes. Wow. Yeah. Only one third of people in this room, adults, would say when they reflected on their childhood, that they had that solid relationship with one adult that really created the conditions for them to be authentic and real about their own life experience. That’s crazy. Like that’s just not acceptable, in my opinion. Then I did research on who are these people? Like what do they look like? What do they sound like? What are their top qualities? Interestingly enough, it is remarkably the same across cultures. There are three qualities. Anyone want to guess what they are? Three attributes, three traits. What do you think? What do you think, Chris? Well, you’d have to be a good listener. Okay. Well, maybe have a low resting heart rate. You’re allowed to get activated. You yeah, you there’s maybe something about a loving environment or respect for the relationship of the person that you’re helping. So some closeness there. They know you. And they have to care about helping you. Don’t know. Maybe paying it forward. Nice. That’s getting in the right direction. The number one attribute is nonjudgmental. We’re just desperate to be around people who are like, let us be me, let me be me. Don’t try to change me. Stop judging me for my height, my weight, my skin color, my femininity, my masculinity, whatever it is. Just stop judging. They don’t judge, so these people are the people who just don’t judge you. The second is they are good listeners. And the third is they show empathy and compassion. And it sounds simple, isn’t it? Like just everybody from today on forward, I now hereby grant you all to be nonjudgmental, good listeners who show empathy and compassion. As if it were that easy. So what I’m also interested in is like the barriers to that. So what is getting in the way of everyone having an Uncle Marvin or an Aunt Maria? And there are three barriers. Number one is a really ridiculous one. People say they don’t have time. I’m like, you don’t have time to be nonjudgmental? That one is little ridiculous, right? Like, come on. That’s an attitude, that’s a mindset. The second one is listening. That one I can relate to. You know, I’m not a great listener. I pretend to be a good listener. I can’t remember anything anybody tells me. And I struggle being present. Don’t know about anybody else struggle with that? It’s hard. And the empathy and compassion, I think of myself as being empathic and compassionate. But my family would probably say, you could do a little bit better. But the fear factor is interesting, because the other piece of the fear factor, for parents in particular, is that they’re actually afraid to know how their kids actually feel. They’re afraid that their kid is going to say something like, I’m actually really sad, or I’m actually really frustrated or overwhelmed or scared. Because the third piece is that they don’t know what to do about it. They don’t have the skill. So that I spent a lot of my time trying to figure that piece out. Like how do we create a world where there are more Uncle Marvin’s? That’s like my mission in life. Where more people give other people that permission to feel. And then the skills come into play. The five skills of emotional intelligence, which are recognizing emotions in oneself and other. So I’m looking at your facial expressions right now, and I’m like, this is not going well. But seriously, we’re doing that whether we’re conscious of it or not. And by the way, this is not only in relationships, this is at school. I walk into a school and I’m just looking around. Do I feel safe? Do I feel unsafe? Do I feel welcome? Do I feel unwelcome? Do people want to be with me? Do I feel like I belong? Do I feel included or not? It’s an automatic appraisal of our environment. And the second skill is understanding emotion. So why do I feel the way I do? Where do those emotions come from? My research shows that most people don’t understand where emotions come from. So for example, if I were to ask each of you in the room here, what is the psychological difference between anger and disappointment? Who feels absolutely confident that they can provide me a clear definition of anger and disappointment? Anyone want to take a risk? This is the shame induction part of the work, though. I mean You’re not allowed to start calling on people. Yeah. I guess that’s why nobody wants to raise their hands. I’m not Yes? Interesting. So the mood you left in versus the action? Thank you. Others? I mean, it’s crazy. These are words we use all the time, but do we actually know what they mean? I mean, some of us, I’m sure you do in some ways. Once I say it, you’ll be like, oh yeah, of course. So disappointment is unmet expectations. I had an expectation, and it just didn’t work out. Anger is about perceived injustice. You get angry when what you see is that’s not fair, that’s wrong. That’s when we feel angry. Now if I were your child, or your student, and I came into school after recess, and I said, hate this school. How am I feeling? Anger? Anger? Could be either. Either. So who’s right? None of you. And the reason why is that you went into judge mode. And that’s what we do. We judge emotion, or we judge behavior for emotion. I’m growing up in a world that’s a bit toxically masculine, to be frank, and so I’m not going to show my shame that someone just made fun of me on the playground and I’m feeling humiliated. I’m going to show I hate skull. And you’re going say, why are you so angry? But I’m not feeling angry, I’m feeling shame. Because you haven’t built a relationship with me to help me deactivate, to then find out what I’m actually experiencing, which is I’m humiliated that someone really made fun of me on the playground. So that’s the emotional intelligence piece. We don’t want to misperceive emotion based on behavior. So the understanding piece is a big deal. Labeling emotions, having that rich vocabulary. Do I know when it comes to the anger family, what’s the difference between peeved, irritated, angry, enraged? Down, disappointed, devastated, helpless, despair? Just happy feelings too. Calm, content, tranquil, peaceful, relaxed. Happy, excited, elated, etcetera. Expressing emotion, so knowing how and when to express emotion with different people across context. So even here, you know, I’ve never been to St. Louis, Missouri before. My hunch is that the rules are slightly different than the lower east side of New York City. What would you think? Slightly different? It’s good. It’s good to be prepared for that. Yes. I’m only staying for a day, so I’m crying. But there are rules, like it’s anywhere, you know? There’s a difference between I live in Connecticut primarily, but when I go to New York City, it’s like Connecticut feels like a different world to me. Just the way people eye contact is different, the way people speak is different. And then I go to Korea, because my other career is as a martial artist. And let me tell you, you go to South Korea, the rules are completely different. Like, when I came here today, Chris, with all respect, you didn’t bow to me. That would have been a nice gesture. Yeah. Yeah, we don’t do that anymore. Yeah, there it goes. Marks on, right? But in Korea, everybody bows to me. You know, I’m gonna go to Italy and everybody kisses me. Nobody kissed me here, nobody bowed at me, it’s like, I feel very unwelcome. But that’s a cultural phenomenon. We have to understand that. There’s family culture, there’s school culture, there’s world culture. And then the final piece is what my last book is on, which is all about regulation. So what do we now we have all this information, like what do I do? How do I reduce the difficult emotion that I’m having right now? How do I prevent having the anxiety before the test? Etcetera. You know, it’s interesting. I suspect I’m probably not alone like this. You you hear some of these simple seemingly simple words like anger or disappointment or you oh, yeah. Okay. You gotta be a good listener. And, it’s easy to blow right by it, but you have a very interesting way of showing the complexity behind a lot of those points Kinda what you’re talking about. It’s like, you know, it’s so easy to go by it really quickly. You know, and I remember when you and I first started talking, we talked a little bit about, you know, I said something I recall to you that sounded a lot like, tell me how do you how have you been able to get this traction and and and and that the support for what you’re doing, the schools are are interested in working with your your ruler tool. And I remember you told me it’s evidence based. Yeah. And that really stuck with me because there are a lot of, people that can proclaim things or, have gone to some trouble to learn a lot and then here they’re gonna tell you. But the evidence piece, I think, really stands out. And I’m curious, for for the ruler method or the ruler tool, what was your inspiration for the quadrants? What was the inspiration? It’s a key part of that. For those of you I’ll show them. Have Yeah. For for those of you that that know this, it’s the colors and it kinda looks like an x y axis and one one there’s red and there’s green and there’s blue and there’s yellow. Yeah, well, just a few things about that. One is that the concept is a scientific concept that comes before me, that I’m borrowing from other researchers to build this as well. The second is that I wanted to show that we have this app that I co created with the founder of Pinterest. He was it’s very lucky, once in a while somebody really important reads your book, and they call you and they say, I want to work with you and I want to pay for everything. I’m like, I love you. And so we were we worked together to build this app that now, as of I think last week, we’ve had three million people use. Wow. And so it’s free. It’s on Android and iOS, and it’s called How We Feel. But it’s this mood meter, and then you tap a quadrant, which is the red quadrant represents feelings that are high energy but unpleasant. So that would be the anger category and the anxiety category, and then you get thirty six words to describe that quadrant. And you can go down to the blue quadrant, which represents emotions that are low in energy and unpleasant, so down, sad, disappointed, hopeless. And then you go over the green quadrant, which are emotions that are low in energy but pleasant, so content, tranquil, peaceful, relaxed. And then you get the yellow quadrant, which is the high energy pleasant quadrant, which has to do with happiness and excitement and elation and optimism and all that stuff. And then you kind of click your feeling and it gives you the definition. And on the app you can tag it for who you’re with, what you’re doing, and where you’re at. And then it tracks your data only privately, so that way you can see patterns. Oh, I’m feeling this way at this time of the day, or these people. And it gives you insights about how to then change your feelings, if you need to change them or not. But that tool is enormously helpful. One of the things that I think is important, especially in my because I work in schools, is that there should be a common language among all stakeholders. So superintendent, preschooler, they both know what the mood meter is. They both have words for the mood meter. Of course, the superintendent should have better words or more advanced words, But three year olds and four year olds know this tool better than you can imagine. It blows my mind actually how skillful people are at this. They can pick it up very quickly. And basically the theory is that emotions have two products. They are products of our appraisal, of our pleasantness. So do I feel safe and comfortable? Do I feel unsafe? Do I feel like approaching? Do I feel like avoiding? And then the Y axis is about activation or energy levels. Do I feel energized or I feel depleted? And then you cross those two axes to create your four quadrants. Yeah, I know firsthand we’ve used it, and it’s interesting to watch someone really point to what they’re feeling. Yeah. And it it sound it sounds obvious when you say it, but in the moment, it can be really interesting when it’s not what you think is going on in your kitchen at the moment. Yeah. Now, I’d like to talk a little bit about your new book, Dealing with Feeling, and was that a and in there, it’s a lot of there’s a lot there are a lot of topics and discussions around emotional it sounds interesting to say emotional regulation. I always think of emotional dysregulation. But how that can happen and the personal growth that can happen that can occur when individuals become a bit more aware of what they might do or what’s going on. Was this was this book, your new book that just released last month, a natural follow on to the previous book or was this a new kind of moment of inspiration or a new direction of sorts? Are they connected or I mean, the topic is, but I mean, they’re both standalone. Like, you don’t have to read one to get the other. But this book was the pandemic, remember the pandemic? I remember spraying your groceries with Windex and all that stuff, and people freaking out at the grocery store, don’t touch me. I had people calling me from the grocery store, I’m having a breakdown, what do I do? I’m like, take a breath, grab your groceries, and get out. I mean really, was like people were going nuts. And I was going myself, because our what happened for me, which was the story of the opening of my book, was that one of my colleagues got married on March seventh of twenty twenty, and my mother-in-law, who lives in the country of Panama, came to visit because she loves Robin, who is my colleague, and she’s like, wanna go to Robin’s wedding. So we flew her up to the wedding, and she was supposed to stay for two weeks. Well, I hate to tell you this, but after the wedding, things got really weird, and her flight was both, I think it was March seventeenth, and on March thirteenth the world shut down, or the United States did anyway, and as did every airline. And so we could not fly her home in March or April or May or June or July or August. And so she got stuck with us for eight months. And it was unpredicted, and you know, I love Irene, I speak Spanish, I’m very lucky. Can I speak Spanish every day, all day long, and at night? Not really. And the other thing was I’m not used to having my mother-in-law around every minute of the day, and working from home. And like, you know, for example, even like I like to have, I’m a morning person, but I’m a person who likes to be alone in the morning, so I like to make my cup of coffee, I have my little existential crisis, like what’s the purpose of my life, and I like to do that alone. And then I get out of it and then I go to work. Instead I had my mother-in-law saying, can I a cup of coffee? Can I have a cup of coffee? I’m like, make your own coffee. And we have a little complicated machine, I don’t know how to do it. I’m like, growth mindset, growth mindset. I’ll teach you how to do it and you can, you know. And then we got into a huge fight one day, and she looked at me and she just goes, are you really the director of the Center for Emotional Intelligence? And I just said, not tonight. And anyway, everything blew up. It was a really kind of difficult couple of days. But then I did go up to bed, and I’m like, but Mark, you actually are the director of the Center for Emotional. All you do is teach this stuff. I’m like, whatever. And so I literally had a moment coming down the stairs when I had this epiphany, which was if I was having difficulty regulating my emotions, and I have read everything, and I teach this stuff, what was it like for all people? You know, kids who were living in poverty, kids who were, you know, just growing up in very difficult circumstances, and everybody else. And I did research right away, surveys during the pandemic, and people were just like not knowing what to do. They were trying things, they weren’t working. A lot of people’s strategies got taken away from them. So for example, if you were like a hot yoga person, there’s no hot yoga during the pandemic, right? And I’d go into a hot yoga, breathing it. Nobody was doing that. Gyms were closed. You know, couldn’t be, had to be engaged in social distancing, so people weren’t connected to people. And so I did all this research, and that’s how the book came about. You know, I’m about halfway through the book, and I think it’s pretty incredible how vulnerable you’re willing to be about the story you just shared is in the book. Yeah. I have to I to people to read this moment in your home, where you think, oh, maybe not that proud of that, and, that’s that’s pretty incredible. Well, I decided I’m like fifty five, I have tenure. Can’t get fired now. Wouldn’t have probably done that. But I also feel like one of my, if I call it one of my strengths, is that people expect me to be this guru about this stuff. And I’m terrible. I’m better than I’ve ever been. But I really, I do struggle. I’ve had anxiety my whole life, and it comes without me asking it to come. And there are days that I do well with it, and there are days that I can ruminate like anybody else can ruminate. And I try to get out of that rumination, and I’m much more successful than I’ve ever been, but some days it gets the best of me. And I think it’s hard, and I think that people need to hear from people like me and others who are supposed experts, but also are still in learning mode about the whole thing. The vulnerability and authenticity certainly is, pulls you closer to the interest. It does for me at least. Thank you. You know, when we’ve been talking, because of what we do here at the company about movies and the possibilities of how they could be used in certain social emotional learning moments, whether it’s a lesson or an activity or something that’s happening that’s associated to that, solar system that is SEL. Can you talk a little bit about your perspectives on how film and the appropriate films might be used to kind of help engage with the students or perhaps I guess it could be anybody. And a little bit of of a follow on to some of the work we’re doing. Yeah. Well, think just like, you know, so much of the curriculum that my uncle developed was based in language arts and history. And it was, what he did, by the way, back in the day, because he was a teacher in a very rural area of Connecticut, of New York, where he would, he said like, my kids would mow cows at five o’clock in the morning, and then they’d come into class. And I would be like, today we’re going to talk about the Roman oligarchy, and they’d be like. Like there was no connection between this oligarchy and ancient history and their lives. Like it had no relevance or meaningfulness. By the way, that’s the number one thing that kids beg for these days. In my own research, especially among high school students, it’s like can you please make this learning relevant and meaningful to the things that I’m actually interested in life? Like you’re just talking at me. Make me part of the learning. So just to give you an example, he took the social studies curriculum every chapter, looked at all the characters, and decided, okay, well here’s alienation, here’s elation, here’s optimism, here’s despair. He just went through it, and built out a curriculum that would help kids learn emotion while they were learning history. And so I think that applies to film, which is that movies, I mean the best movies move you emotionally. Otherwise there’s no movie. It’s why, you know, soap operas, you’re not going use soap operas for your curriculum. Sorry if you like soap operas, but you know, it’s kind of It’s flat on the list. It’s kind of like, you know, honey, I love you. And it’s like, it doesn’t have that much, you know, but a good movie is, you know, there’s pain, there’s love, there’s roller coaster rides of emotion. And I think it’s just an amazing opportunity to have kids watch scenes and think about the characters. And when characters make errors in their relationships and they fail at regulating to have conversations, well what could that character have, if you were that character, and now that you know all this ruler stuff, how would you have regulated differently? What do you believe would be a better strategy? And let’s role play that even, and see how it looks. So I think role plays are really great to do. I think deep reflections are great to do. You know, in literature you talk about like text to self. Well, same thing applies in a film. And that’s just one example. Yeah, no, we hear from our customers that it helps students or young people kind of lean in, so to speak, to this moment. Okay, here’s what we’re going to do or here’s the setup for the day and there’s a little bit of kind of, well, let’s see what this is. And the sooner you can kind of open a mind or get someone to fully engage, perhaps the more you’re going to get out of it. So, yeah, we’re excited about, the work we’re doing together. Yeah. And I really appreciate your interest in in this particular, kind of cause and, yeah, thank you so much for spending time here today. We have a little bit of time, still in our event. If anybody has any questions for Mark or would like to ask him anything, we’d like to invite anybody, customer, employee, anyone, guest, if you’d like to ask Mark anything, here’s your moment. Ask Mark anything. Let’s be care please. So, we read to our kids stories. Yeah. We watch a lot of films with short, you know, movies. Yeah. Do you find any is there a particular style or genre or anything in particular that works with, you know, K through eight? I think everything works. Just think that the, whether it’s the Inside Out movies, where it’s cartoons, kids can relate to that. Whether I was talking earlier about a movie like The Outsiders, where there’s conflict between two groups, and there’s race relations, there’s so much going on that I think there’s always opportunities. And so I just think, what you want to look for are the, those moments, you know, where the characters fall apart, where there’s this, you know, whether it’s the anger that causes someone to lose a relationship, whether it’s, you know, the disappointment in achieving a goal, I mean, you just think about the mood meter. You know, what people, what you can do, you know, I’ll give you a good example. The movie called The Boy in the Striped Pajamas, maybe you’re familiar with that? Well you could take one character, I think the character Schmuel, if I recall properly. And you can literally take the mood meter and trace his experience throughout the whole thing, and talk about when was he in the yellow, when was he in the green, when was in the blue, when was in the red, what was happening, what was it like for the other characters. And so that’s, to me, that’s the beauty of it is, and a lot of schools use the mood meter with film, and do that kind of crossover walk, that crosswalk between, not just about a moment, but literally trace the emotional trajectory of that character throughout the entire film. And then we can create a report on that, a big insight on that. Yeah. One of my favorite films is This Is Where I Leave You to deal with emotional health. I was wondering if you had any favorite films, films that you like either for kids to watch or even adults to deal with emotional health? I mean, there’s so many. One of my all time favorite movies is The Color Purple. I just think it just brings up so many interesting and painful experiences for people. And you know, it’s parent relations, it’s marital relationships, it’s kids, it’s trauma, it’s everything. And I think those are the kind of movies where I think it’s almost like a shame not to have discussions about the movie. You know, in my opinion, it’s like a waste. It’s like you can watch the movie and then be moved by it, but then the real, you know, kind of deep kind of understanding comes from the conversations that people can have about, you know, the characters and that longing when you have to give up your child. I mean, what it would what it would feel like to have to not raise your own child, you know. Like, these are real things that people go through in life and let’s give people an opportunity to think about it and be critical, you know, think about how to prevent that, how to reduce it, you know, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. If you don’t do the reflection, you haven’t had the full experience Yeah. That film. Is there maybe one final question or thought? Yes? Oh? You’re allowed. We’ll go back there first. Employees get privilege here. We would approach it the same or different, and how to weigh those two sides of that point? It’s a great question. So it’s more natural to think about regulating unpleasant emotions. And that’s, you’re bringing up a point. The truth is, unfortunately, there are more unpleasant emotions than pleasant emotions in this world. We’re more granular, we’re more nuanced when we talk about unpleasant feelings. There’s more gradation. It doesn’t mean that we don’t want to maintain or enhance pleasant emotions. So I’ll give you an example of that. In my curriculum, we do a lot of comparing and contrasting of emotions, and they can be a pleasant emotion and an unpleasant emotion, or they can be too pleasant emotions. So I’m going to pretend you are our fourth grade classroom right now, and I wrote about this and I could not get it into the chapter in the book that I wanted it to. This was too much. So you’re getting the behind the scenes, the three pages that got ripped out of the book. I was taking a fourth grade classroom on this journey of understanding the psychological difference between feeling excited and elated. What is the difference? Anticipation. Who’s saying that? Okay. One is anticipatory? Yes. And what’s the other? We’re already experiencing it, or even after. Nice. So when you’re excited about something that’s upcoming, and you feel elated, you know, maybe hit the goal, and you feel like you’re accomplished and happy at the same time. That’s elation. Make sense? So these fourth graders are differentiating these concepts and defining them. Then they get into groups, and they have to come up with scenarios, or movies, clips, where someone would have experienced elation, or excitement, I’ll take elation for now. So what are scenarios where people, you’ve noticed yourself or someone else, feel elation? And they come a lot of way. Sports, when you get the goal in, or when you get the grade back and you got the A in their essay, whatever it was. So we used the sports one for this particular role play. Not role play, well, it became a role play eventually. So then, I said to them, now you’re going go back into your groups, and what we’re going to talk about today, what you’re going to think about today, is imagine one of your best friends got the goal in and they’re feeling elated. I want to know five ways that you would help that person savor that feeling of elation. Go to your groups, these four, these little eight year old, ten year olds, whatever they’re fourth grade, nine year olds, you get into the groups, they all come up with their five ideas, and I say, let’s share. This one kid says, you know, going back to the goal example, he goes, you know, what I would do is I would ask my friend, do you remember when you were watching the ball pass by the goalie and it went into the net? Like do you remember what you were feeling at that very, very moment? And like, tell me the story of what was going on in your head about that? It’s incredible, right? And then another one said something else about this, another one said something about that. And then, I mean, these are schools that I have worked with myself, because I have a lot of schools that I do research in. And also it’s like great for writing books, because I just have it right there. And I’m doing it, and I get to record it, and it’s like perfect. And usually is kind of just magical, in my opinion, to work with kids and get them to do creative problem solving, And they come to the table like nobody else can. They’re so uninhibited in their creative thinking. And for these fourth graders to be talking about elation versus excitement, to savor elation. So the last piece of this story is one of my favorites, which is I tell the kids, I said, you know, most of your parents are going to know I was here today, because the letter goes home that Doctor. Brackett was visiting your classroom. And so what are you going to tell them? What are you going to tell your parents that you learned today? And this one young girl looks at me and she says, sir, I feel like we learned a new way of being empathetic. Like, what do you mean a new way to be empathetic? Well, she said, we always talk about empathy, you know, if something bad happens and we show up for someone, and we say we’re sorry, or we have, you know, for their misfortune, I’m paraphrasing. But this is like empathy too, because what you’re doing is you’re helping someone savor a pleasant feeling. That’s also empathy. It’s like, you’re a genius. You know? And they are geniuses, these kids. Now, I can’t tell you how many people push back and say, these kids can’t do that, this is too complicated. I’m like, this is not complicated. When you give them an opportunity to problem solve, they love the opportunity. And then we had I’m just going give one other this is kind of a negative with a positive. Can I tell one more? Please. I have an Abilion anecdotes. It was another example around bullying, where we were going to the whole thing, and this one classroom was having lots of challenges on the playground with this Gaga pit thing, and they were going crazy. Anybody know about the Gaga pit? It’s like they should all be filled. Anyhow, and it was about being left out, and blah blah blah. Anyhow, long story short is that we would come up with solutions for how to deal with being the person who was the victim, or being bullied, versus the person who was engaging in the mean and cruel behavior. All these conversations were happening. And then this one child said something like, well, you know, in our work, one of the tools is called the classroom emotional intelligence charter, which every kid talks about how they want to feel. And they come up with a credo, or an agreement, that we want to feel valued, or supported, or connected, inspired, whatever it is. They have behaviors, not rules, but behaviors, to help create a classroom where kids feel this way. It’s a big part of my work. Anyhow, so the girl says, well, this is a clear breaking of the charter. And we have to remind the person who’s being mean and cruel, we agreed as a classroom in September that we want to feel supported and valued and included, and that’s not working. And so then I said, what do people think about that? And this one boy said, well, it might work, but it might also backfire. And he said, and so I said, well tell us about that. So he said, well sometimes, you know, the bully is going to retelly against someone who is kind of trying to interfere. And especially, you know, and then the girl said, well, you know, we decided that we’re going to be kind. And the boys, and they were going to just like think about like kind versus, you know, the bully retaliating. And so the girl says, listen, if someone wants to be mean to me for being kind, let them do it. And I was just sort of like, where am I? But this is like, I just feel like that’s and I share that with you because I believe that emotional intelligence, emotional regulation, is a muscle. Just like if you work out at the gym, I don’t know about you, I’ve been working out for a long time, and my biceps, it’s not like I go from here to here, right? Takes years to get your biceps a certain way. And as you do it, they get stronger and stronger. The same thing applies to your emotional life. If you don’t practice this early and keep on rehearsing it and cultivating it, it just doesn’t become that strong muscle. Now granted, the good news is that you’re never too old to learn this, but why wait? Why not build the muscle early on as a preventative tool to help children have good relationships and good mental health? Mark, thank you. Thank you. For giving so much in this event and your time and your thought. I really appreciate it. I hope that for everybody else there was a little something that you got out of this that set you off into our day. We are going to stick around for a few minutes, so if you have another question you’d like to ask Mark, he’ll be here for a little bit. And then please, let’s make sure everybody gets a book on the way out. And thank you again for coming to our fireside chat. Thank you, everybody. Really appreciate it.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t\t\t\t

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